It can be hard to establish reliable culture and community in a standardized physical environment. Mike Gray describes how he does so across his franchises, and what makes for good franchise management.
It can be hard to establish reliable culture and community in a standardized physical environment. Mike Gray describes how he does so across his franchises, and what makes for good franchise management.
Welcome to Elevating Brick and Mortar. A podcast about how operations and facilities drive brand performance.
On today’s episode, we talk with Mike Gray, President of Rumble Boxing. As a relatively new boutique HIIT fitness center, Rumble has been a franchised brand for 3 years and has over 80 studios and counting.
Guest Bio:
Mike Gray is a veteran fitness professional with almost 30 years of experience in the fitness industry and holds 19 national fitness certifications. He was born in California and lived all over the US growing up. He started his career in fitness between high school and college at Family Fitness Center, making $4.25 an hour as a floor instructor. Family Fitness Center was bought by what is now 24-hour Fitness, where Mike spent much of his early career rising through the ranks to become District Fitness Manager. He transitioned to UFC Gyms, where he finished as Director of Operations. In 2017, Mike joined Club Pilates as the Vice President of Sales before transitioning to Senior Vice President of Operations in 2018 and then President in 2021. During his time at Club Pilates, he oversaw all departments to grow Club Pilates into the household name it now is at 1,000+ global locations. Following this success, he was named President of Rumble Boxing, Xponential’s boxing and strength training workout where he is focused on driving all areas of the business to grow it into another household name in boutique fitness.
Timestamps:
00:56 - About Club Pilates
01:34 - About Rumble Boxing
01:58 - Mike’s journey
06:36 - The North Star of boutique fitness
10:27 - Design and construction across franchises
17:54 - Building quality assurance
27:37 - What’s next for the consumer?
31:37 - Future thinking
35:58 - Where to find Mike
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[00:00:00] Sid: Hello everyone. Welcome to Elevating Brick and Mortar. Thank you for joining us. I am here today with Mike Gray, former president of Club Pilates and the current president of Rumble Boxing. Mike, thank you for being here.
[00:00:12] Mike: Hey Sid, thanks so much for having me.
[00:00:14] Sid: Really excited to have you on the show. For folks in our audience, uh, Mike, who might not be familiar, can you share some insight into Club Pilates?
[00:00:22] Mike: Oh man, I got a lot of insight to share on that Sid. So, uh, Club Pilates was started back in the day by someone by the name of Allison Beardsley. Um, she did a phenomenal job as a practitioner. And you look at, kind of fast forwarding, in 2015, um, Anthony Geisler ended up purchasing Club Pilates and started really the expansion and growth process.
[00:00:44] Um, so today Club Pilates is the largest Pilates practitioner in the world. We have over a thousand locations in 14 different countries. Uh, and we're growing every single month, month over month. So it's, it's phenomenal. And the mission behind that is really to bring Pilates to anybody. And it is for everybody, which is important.
[00:00:59] Sid: What
[00:01:00] About Rumble Boxing? Can you share more about that as well?
[00:01:03] Mike: Absolutely. So Rumble's been around for a long time. Uh, we actually acquired Rumble here at Exponential Fitness. About three years ago, and when we started, we had a handful of locations. Um, in the last three years, we were able to open over 80 locations, and we're still growing as well, not only domestically, but also our international footprint.
[00:01:20] Sid: I'd love to talk more about both those brands, but before that I'd love to talk about you, uh, and your journey. How did you get to where you are today?
[00:01:27] Mike: It's a long journey, uh, 29 years into the industry. It actually happened as a fluke. I needed a part time job, uh, as I was starting off, going ready to go from high school to college, and ended up interviewing for a position at a company called Family Fitness. Originally, I was turned away. I didn't, I was too young.
[00:01:43] I was 17, didn't have a look. This is early 90s Sid, not to age me, but I did earlier when I said 29 years in this industry. Um, and when you looked at the industry back then, it was a different dynamics than it is today. Like the fact that I was turned away, that they said I didn't look the part, or I was just too young for the part. So I went back and I re interviewed again, um, and I ended up actually getting the job. Um, and, yeah, yeah, so it was exciting, right? So it was exciting to go into an opportunity and be turned away. Let that kind of marinate a little bit and upset me. And then go back in and actually get the job. And you fast forward through that.
[00:02:17] I ended up being one of the youngest trainers in the company and then trainer of the year and then elevated year over year from there, which kind of led me to where I am today. Um, which is interesting. So going from family fitness, which was back in the early nineties into the acquisition for 24 hour Nautilus to family fitness to become 24 hour fitness, staying with that company for approximately 14 years.
[00:02:39] Leaving that company to go help start a brand new company called UFC Gym. Being with that company for about seven to nine years, uh, and then transition from there over to Club Pilates. So, um, clearly there's an easy segue going from UFC to Club Pilates. It's a perfect fit.
[00:02:54] Sid: Yeah, that, that's phenomenal. I mean, that's quite the journey. I mean, Did you always aspire to be the president of a brand like this or did it just happen and, you know, you just took step after step and it led to you building a brand like Club Pilates with a very, very high location count and then now kind of going on this journey with Rumble Boxing as well.
[00:03:20] Mike: One thing I learned young is that you have to have a goal, right? And you have to have the goal in mind and everything you do. And so every, you know, every position I've been in my life, it's what's the next step, right? Regardless if it's being that floor instructor at Family Fitness and saying, Hey, I want to become a manager or starting with Club Pilates as the vice president of sales and saying, Hey, I'm going to be the president within three to four years, um, because I want to work with the goal in mind. And that was important to me. So always setting that goals, I think is important, not only just in business, but just in life.
[00:03:48] Sid: Did you envision Club Pilates would reach this kind of location count when you, when you first joined? And, and I guess as president, what was your role in, in building that entire brand?
[00:04:01] Mike: Honestly, no, I didn't envision us being this big. When I started Club Pilates, we had 126 locations with close to 400 locations sold, so territory sold. Um, and that was part of my, my hesitation coming over is like, it's Pilates. How big can this really be? Right? It was really an unknown name and Pilates was nowhere near the niche and as big as it is today.
[00:04:23] And so I had to look at what is it going to take to help grow the brand? Fortunatelym I had some really good peers and I was able to acquire some really good talent and working with some really creative people, we really put together a strong strategy. What is, what is it going to be to get these franchisees to be successful? And it started with making sure that their first location opened extremely strong. Because most of our franchisees in the system had purchased two or three units at a time. And so if their first location wasn't successful, the probability of them opening their second was slim to none. So we really went heavy on the marketing aspect, had a great CMO at the time who really helped us really bring the brand to where it is today.
[00:05:02] Um, as well as really what is needed from a sales and structure and operational aspect to grow the brand.
[00:05:08] Sid: Do you have corporate locations as well, or are you primarily a franchise model?
[00:05:13] Mike: We put our toe in the water on corporate locations, but we've, we've always been a franchise model. We want to run that way with really supporting the franchisee. Uh, and that's been important to us. It's, it's one thing to own and operate. It's different to support and operate when it comes to franchising.
[00:05:29] Sid: Got it. Both Club Pilates and Rumble Boxing, like they have a very unique value proposition each and they're different, right? Um, how they look, how they feel, probably the demographic is different. I mean, I'd love to understand that. Like, is it the same consumer or is it a different type of customer that, is attracted to either, uh, of those offerings. I'd also love to understand what is your North star in terms of the kind of experience you want to offer a consumer and why they should come, you know, to a club Pilates or a rumble boxing.
[00:06:04] Mike: So, I think the North Star is we want to create an inclusive environment where really there's culture and community. And that's really important. And my belief is that separates boutique fitness versus big box fitness. And also allows us to elevate the experience of the consumer, right?
[00:06:20] So, the goal of Everyone likes to try different modalities and exercises. The goal is keeping them and how long can you keep them for and a good indication of that is how well you treat them and the culture and community you build inside your four walls. And that's something we've really preached and taught throughout this whole process with both brands.
[00:06:38] When you look at the consumers, The consumers for us, for Club Pilates, has generally swung a little older, right? A little older demographic, a little more stable financial, and so forth. But because it literally is for everybody, and with the excitement around Pilates, and the current kind of attention it has received in the last two years, we've seen a big swing in younger demos coming in as well.
[00:07:02] The unique thing with Pilates, Sid, is that it literally can be done for anybody. So my son has taken Pilates and he's 16 now, but in his athletic aspect for recovering from injury, he took Pilates, right? And so when you look at that, it is for everyone, but most of the club Pilates consumers do swing more towards that 38 to 40 year old and higher age group, but we have seen a swing in that lower.
[00:07:24] And then quite the opposite for Rumble. Rumble typically swings more of the lower demographic, but you'll see the older demographic peppered into the classes because of the style of classes. And at the end of the day, if I was to regress back and say, if it's the culture and community we build inside, anybody can do either one of these workouts because it's really modified based off your skill set and your level.
[00:07:47] The goal is to take away the intimidation factor so you actually enjoy your workout. That way you get more out of it.
[00:07:54] Sid: If you look at you know, the nod star for for Club Pilates that you know You've already built over the last few years is it like a lift and shift like you do you feel like there's a certain Kind of nod star and experience and guiding principles that worked really well and now you got to do it It's just a different brand and different offering, but there's a lot of commonality in that or do you feel like Depending on the brand that kinds of kind of shifts with with rumble boxing now,
[00:08:24] Mike: Yeah, it's a great question. So, I've always kind of lived off of three principles when it comes to running a franchise. One is process. It has to be a process that really you can inspect from outside and understand every inner working behind it. The second process with that is the duplication. You have to create it so anybody can do it.
[00:08:42] Right? There's only one of me. But if there are thousands of me, then it'd be really successful everywhere. Right? And so the process has to be so simple that someone coming in from a high school level coming in as a sales associate to a more advanced individual coming into it can understand and comprehend how to execute the play.
[00:08:59] And that third piece is execution. You have to do the work and you have to deliver results. Right? And so fundamentally speaking, yes, we can take the same conceptual. Principles we built with Club Pilates and correlate them and parlay them over into Rumble, which will allow us to functionally run the same with the same processes that we could duplicate, but some of the ingredients will be a little different, obviously the different modalities.
[00:09:25] Sid: What is the role of design and, and construction and, and facilities management, as you think about the actual physical space and delivering on your brand promise, because both brands look and feel different, but the expectation that you, you have as a leader of the organization is that there are certain principles that you In terms of design and experience that you want to deliver that is common across both, right? What's your view on that?
[00:09:56] Mike: Yeah, obviously you want to walk into either Rumble or Club Pilates in California and walk into that same facility in Miami and have the same look and feel, right? So standardization is important. The biggest part we look at that is understanding the square footage of the space and how do we maximize, right?
[00:10:12] We're talking about franchise partners, franchisees. They're looking to, they're entrepreneurs, they're trying to make money off of a product, and we need to make sure that we're setting them up for success. And so in that is really looking at the square footage and making sure that we could get every, every square foot we could yield an ROI off of, right?
[00:10:29] So where we've made mistakes in the past and the learnings is by allowing partners to go too big because they want to have a wow factor. Right, or trying to go too small, which takes away from the experience factor. So finding that, that right sweet spot when it comes to the space is critical and important. Then also looking at just not only the four walls internal, but also the external as well, right, and understanding how does that drive traffic into the facility and so forth.
[00:10:54] Sid: Help me understand, when you talk to a franchise owner do you have certain principles on how big the location can be. How many workout stations can you have in that space? And you know, what kind of look and feel has to be maintained, you know, help us understand how that works in, in a business like yours.
[00:11:22] Mike: Yeah, so we have a design intent plan, which basically lays out everything it is, and there's some parameters,
[00:11:27] but all of us will be standardized. So Club Polites will have 12 benches, right? We'll have the extra chairs, uh, springboards, maple boards, all the stuff we need to operate a studio. Uh, whereas Rumble will have its stations, right?
[00:11:39] We'll have our, our, our bag rack with our rigs, we call it, with all of our aqua bags. And then we'll have also all of our benches with our weights and our knuckles and so forth. So we can give that experience and it's standardized through that.
[00:11:51] Sid: How do you ensure that no matter where someone kind of walks in, the brand, you know, in terms of how it's represented in the physical space is the same, the same standards are kept, and that the equipment that is very critical in the fitness industry is, is as it should be right now because, you know, there's a higher chance of wear and tear in your business and you want to be able to have, you know, the team take care of the equipment so that someone's not walking into a, a torn boxing bag or, you know, an unclean workout station, right?
[00:12:26] Mike: I think it's easier when the brand has success, right? Because people don't want to change what's working, right? But even then, you'll still have people want to make changes or make their own touches to things. Internationally, it's a little more challenging than domestically. Because domestically, we have our preferred vendors we work with that can distribute to all of our franchisees.
[00:12:46] Internationally, you know, there are some issues where some equipment is just not available in some countries. So we have to make some different modifications. Um, but in that, we standardize it, and it really starts in the very beginning, right? Where we kind of control, these are the vendors you can utilize, so we have the quality assurance.
[00:13:02] Um, and then we have a really, uh, vigorous kind of control process in place to make sure that if there are issues, that we from a franchisor can help support the franchisee in getting things repaired.
[00:13:11] that's controlling that process and also testing too. We've got to do a lot of testing to make sure it can handle the wear and tear, um, that the consumer is going to put on it.
[00:13:19] Sid: Wow. Fascinating. Let's pivot a little bit and talk about like the fitness industry as a whole, right? You've been in, you've been in the space a long time. Have you seen certain trends that, you know, are, you know, as someone from the inside, like it's very stark to you, you know, has what fitness means change or is changing at this point?
[00:13:40] Mike: I think at the root of it, it's gonna be really difficult to change in my opinion. Um, but it has changed. I think COVID really exposed the virtual at home aspect, right? With no one being able to leave and pivoting to, uh, other manufacturers provide in home workouts. Right, and allow you to do things. But I think home workouts and boutique or gym workouts have always been there.
[00:14:03] And I think people find their niche. What do they enjoy? What do they like? And what do they gravitate towards? More common than not, if you could decrease the threat factor of the consumer coming into a studio, they'll stay longer than what they do at home, right? Typically, it takes two to three months and the treadmill at home turns into a hamper. Versus in the studio, there's that peer to peer support. And sometimes peer to peer pressure, right? Like I said, you're not showing up tomorrow? Come on, I'm gonna be here, you better be here too, right? And so I think with that, I don't see that changing. I don't see technology when it comes to AI or anything that's going to change the principles of how workouts are done.
[00:14:42] I do think it will change the consumer's journey as far as how they come into the environment and how we get them into the studios for sure. That's what I've seen and I foresee that as long as there's good product with good people providing that product, it's really hard not to want to be a part of that.
[00:15:01] Sid: Would you consider Pilates and boxing to be kind of new categories in the fitness space? Or, cause there's the traditional gyms, right, when did these new categories come about and do you think like there's a certain evolution that it's on or you feel like it's already mature and it's it's just going to get bigger and more ubiquitous
[00:15:25] Mike: Yeah, it's a great question Sid. So I think when you look at regular fitness, regular boutique or regular gyms in general, um, we used to say back in the day, every time there's a fast food chain that opened, there's job security, right? And so when you look at Pilates itself, it's been around for over a hundred years with Joseph Pilates.
[00:15:42] So it's not new, it's just new in the mainstream, right? And when you look at most people who find Pilates, typically they find it when they're recovering from an injury or an ailment. Yeah. They're a physical therapist, or the doctor says we want you to work on mobility, so they refer them to either Pilates or physical therapy to do so.
[00:15:59] So it's been there, and it's going to be there. It's one of those modalities that is not going to go away. On the opposite side of that with rumble, boxing itself has been around for over 100 years as well, right? The difference is, is there's always been an attraction from a male point of view for that kind of boxing element.
[00:16:18] But rumble isn't a traditional boxing element gym. You're not going in to learn to fight. You're doing this as a cardio component, more of a hit style, combining with the weight training, right? And everything we provide internally with our rounds and the energy and the excitement, the music, that's what makes it really appealing and attracting.
[00:16:36] So, um, as you look at that high intensity workouts seem to be back on a rise, right? I think they started to dip away for a little bit. Now they're coming back. And they're coming back with a vengeance. Modalities like Rumble will definitely be around for a long period of time because it's taking a different element of cardio and that boxing aspect, uh, and tying it back into that HIIT training that you have with weight training and circuit training.
[00:17:00] Sid: Do you think that that's played a role in the success of Club Pilates that you've kind of made it more accessible and then you've kind of had a certain experience that you're offering the consumer? Why were you able to build this brand and make it so big in a relatively short amount of time, right?
[00:17:21] Mike: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think as much as I like to take the credit for it, it's really about surrounding yourself with the right people. Right. And that's important and people development. And so I think with Club Pilates specifically, what has been really dynamic is, you know, they say it starts at the top and then trickles down. Well, if the top isn't aligned and moving the same direction, it's hard for the people below to get in line and move the same direction. And so we've always had a really common goal for Club Pilates, and it's really to be the world's biggest and best out there. And as you get bigger, it's harder to stay the best sometimes because it can get harder to have those quality assurances and things in place.
[00:17:58] But as we've done this, it's really to support the franchisee and help them become successful and watch their success. 'cause in franchising a franchisee success is the franchisor success. Right? And so that's really been a big part of the mission is driving that. And it goes back to what I said in the very beginning, which is we knew instantly that if their first location didn't open successfully, they're not going, we wouldn't be where we are today, just transparently speaking.
[00:18:23] Right. We'd have probably 300 locations and we'd be a very standard boutique fitness model out there. But because of the processes that we're able to duplicate and execute on, we're able to grow rapidly and allow our partners to have great success.
[00:18:37] Sid: Sometimes the joke is that you have a gym membership, but you'll go like, you know, once a week, uh, or you might not go at all, uh, but you feel comfort in knowing that you have a gym membership.
[00:18:49] Right? Does, you know, a club Pilates or a rumble boxing kind of share some of those inherent challenges that exist in bringing consumer through your doors or like you said, like there's a different social element to, you know, your offering that kind of helps solve for some of that. And is that the only difference?
[00:19:12] Mike: There's a lot of differences. Um, I think when you look at big bucks, right, as you mentioned earlier, they've been around for a long, long time. And that's what people associate as traditional fitness. Boutique fitness I would say it's relatively new in the space, right? And one of the things that is really attractive about Boutique Fitness is it's hard to get a consumer in the door, right?
[00:19:33] Because they don't know what they're walking into. Whereas, as I said earlier, I know when I'm walking into a big box. I could walk into a 24 Hour Fitness, a Planet Fitness, whatever it may be. There's gonna be weights and cardio and people working out and funny smells and noises and all those things. But when I walk into a Boutique Fitness studio, most people have never experienced that.
[00:19:50] But once they do, they either fall in love with it, or they like the big box mentality and they go back to a big box. And so when you look at that, I think one of the most intriguing things about what we do in a boutique model is it comes back to that, that culture, right? In the community within, because you're walking into a small space and in that small space it's hard not to socialize and get to know the person next to you and have those conversations and build relationships. And as you build those relationships, that helps in the retention process, too.
[00:20:24] Sid: You talk a lot about having the right team and the right people. How important it is, is it for you to actually develop the culture that attracts great talent and how do you keep it? I'd love to understand like what is the kind of development that You like to see in in the staff around you.
[00:20:45] Mike: Yeah, so just like we do with the franchisees, identifying their why, right, when they come in. I like to do the same thing with my team. Why are they here? What are they looking to get out of it? And for me, I think people do things for two reasons. Selfishly and selflessly. Selfishly, I need good people around me to help grow the business.
[00:21:02] But selflessly, how do I develop them? Because knowing that the probability of them being with me forever is slim to none, And if I could help them get to wherever they want to get to for their why, it helps me, right, indirectly and directly too, because I get more loyalty and buy in. And so when you look at that, I think that what we do as far as developing the team, it's everything.
[00:21:22] And I think a lot of businesses, they fall off on not just the culture, right, culture is the fun aspect, but It's, it's also the development of how do you get people to become better humans and to do better work for themselves, both inside and outside of the four walls you call work, right? And so some of the things I like to do, and I still do this, most of my employees that I've had over the years, not all, cause I, I didn't start this early, but probably about 10 years into my career, I started sitting down with everyone and doing one on ones, succession planning, goal planning, all that stuff.
[00:21:54] But I always hit them with a hard question, right? Cause they assume that I'm going to be talking work. I always hit them with, so Sid, what is your personal goal outside of work? What do you want to accomplish? Right? And they're coming into a meeting and they're thinking, Oh, I gotta have my goals for work and where do I want to be?
[00:22:08] Because I believe that if I could help them externally get to where they want to be, right? And we can do it by performing internally here, that's a win for both people. Starting with that's important.
[00:22:18] Second is little things culturally, celebrity wins, right? Celebrating wins is done often, but a lot of times what people do is they only celebrate wins. I think you also have to have the hard conversations, which is what do we do wrong or what can we do better, right? And so, I've always implemented through early days of coaching and training a 1 plus 1, so 1 constructive feedback and 1 positive feedback at every meeting we do.
[00:22:42] And then having complete team alignment in our meetings too. So even to this day, I'll pull our creative people in with our marketing and our design and our sales and our operational people once a week into a room, and we have a collective meeting where we not only share and brainstorm, but we do coaching and developing as a team for alignment because there has to be that kind of peer to peer accountability for us to keep that North Star the North Star.
[00:23:05] Sid: when you look at, you know, trainers that are in your locations and are with the consumer, um, you know, they have to be high energy and they need to love what they do, right? What does it take to be a successful trainer? And
[00:23:20] Mike: Yeah, that's a great question. I think you'll see a little bit of everything. And it depends on where you are and what you're doing. So Pilates, for example, it's a 500 hour certification. And so it takes an average between 10 to 12 months for someone to finish their certification with everything else on top of the apprenticeship and intern hours, all the stuff they have to do in studio.
[00:23:40] So it's, it's really grueling when it comes to that. Yeah. So you'll see a mix of people who have a full time job that are passionate about that modality and they teach in subclasses. And you'll see other people who want to make this their career, right? And the career is to be an instructor and they're happy just bouncing around with that lifestyle.
[00:23:58] Or it's the opposite, where they start as an instructor and they want to have a little more stability because of hours. So they move more into a sales or operational role and help elevate that process from there.
[00:24:10] Sid: When it comes to kind of the skilled trades and in general, like, you know, Human capital and talent that can work in the locations as well. Both of those seem to be having some challenges, right? There's in the skilled trades, there's a massive shortage. There's not enough folks that entered the trades, you know, over the past decade.
[00:24:32] And so we're seeing that now become an issue because a lot of folks are retiring out. Uh, but not enough inflow of, of, of individuals that are choosing to go down this career path. There's also some shortage that it seems like, you know, you can't find enough talent to be in the location, no matter which vertical you're in, whether it's you're, you're a retailer or a restauranteur. Are you having those same challenges in, in your business in the fitness space?
[00:24:59] Mike: I would say that the challenges are a little different, um, and the reason why is depends on the modality and where you are. I think with Club Pilates, I think there's a long retention from employees. They stay there. with the Rumble aspect, um, I don't think we're mature enough yet to say that we have a huge drop off of instructors, which you tend to find as instructors will transition from studio to studio, right?
[00:25:23] And so it's not really drop off. Um, but I would say that you've got a good mixture of people who have got experience coming into it and people who have zero experience too, right? And I love that because you're creating the next generation of people who will kind of carry the torch, if you will, right? As long as there's good guidance and coaching involved.
[00:25:43] Sid: Some of the challenges that we have now is because You know, there's this narrative that the only way you succeed in life is by going through to a traditional like four year degree college, right? And so not enough folks are branching out into different types, uh, of careers. What are your thoughts on that?
[00:26:03] Mike: Well I have a son, so obviously I want him to go to college, right? So I think it's important, but I don't, to answer your question, I don't think college is the end all be all. I don't think you have to, depending on the, the, the job and what you're looking to do. I don't think it's a necessity, it's a nice and a good to have.
[00:26:19] Um, but for me, what I look for is I look for people's experience. I looked, how well do people connect and how well do they communicate? And, and what's the intent behind that? And a lot of times what I've seen, and even in my career, I, some of my biggest mentors don't have college degrees and they are some of the top leaders in the industry, right? in this generation, you're hearing more and more of that at trade schools and people saying, Hey, I'm not going to go to school for four years, but I'm going to go to trade school.
[00:26:46] And I think that's great. I think as long as they find their, their mission and what they want to accomplish, I don't think it's anything wrong with that.
[00:26:52] Sid: Yeah. What excites you about the time we're in today? I mean, there's a lot of change that has happened over the past five years, right?
[00:26:59] What do you, what do you think is, is going to happen in terms of consumer trends and how they interact with the brands that they love?
[00:27:07] Mike: so excites me is just the, the excitement of people's awareness of fitness in general. I think really COVID kind of shifted that right. And health, not only just physical health, but mental health. And so the syncing and combination of both those, you're going to see a lot more of, and I think that's critical because you can't do one without the other, right?
[00:27:25] And if you do one without the other, it's not long term, it's short term. And so that syncing is what's exciting me. The fact that people are more aware and attuned to the mental health, what they need to get into, but also how that correlates to physical health. Which is important, uh, so that excites me. I think that's going to be a huge thing for us.
[00:27:42] People feeling comfortable in what they're doing. Like I said earlier, I don't, I don't foresee AI making big changes for us when it comes to how we operate. Maybe wearable technology pieces and things to that extent can help gamify.
[00:27:55] That's always been the case. But I think at the end of the day, having um, the connection with people, we, we earn for that. We need that. Right? And so having that is important. I think it's interesting with the newest generation people coming up, children, right? With the lack of connection due to tablets and all the technology stuff, that's the question I have is what's going to appeal to them as they become, you know, the studio or gym users.
[00:28:20] Sid: Yeah. That's fascinating because, and especially in the last five years, it seems like we've kind of gone a road where everyone now is yearning for the human interaction, right? Cause COVID kind of put us all through a certain state, you know, a mental state where, we suddenly realized what we were missing.
[00:28:42] You're trying to see a lot of, uh, you know, the younger generation wanting to engage with people, you know,
[00:28:49] you touched upon this earlier, there's this gamification of fitness. And a lot of that is also like, Hey. You can work out at home, but still kind of feel connected to a community.
[00:29:03] And that of course is kind of the other side of the spectrum to what you're building, which is, Hey, come into our physical space and be with the community in person, right? Is there a push and pull here where there's room for both? Or do you feel like, you know, one is more, has got more longevity than the other?
[00:29:25] Mike: Selfishly, I'm going to say that the boutique fitness has more longevity. Um, but I don't have a crystal ball, right? So, I don't know where it's going to be. I know that the in home space and the technology piece has been, it's been trying for 50, 60 years, right? Even going back to old VHS tapes and things to that extent, right?
[00:29:44] And so, it's something that's making some progress and I think it's great. I think there's plenty of space. There's space for big box, there's space for boutique, there's space for in home. And I think in a perfect world, the consumer would want to have all three,
[00:29:57] Sid: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:59] Mike: But the hard part is, is that there's, there's nothing that will replace that instructor, that in person tonality and feel and energy that you get from going to a class versus watching someone on a computer screen or on a tablet or in an in home workout, right?
[00:30:15] And so, I I would say that most people probably have weights or some sort of in home workout stuff, but they just don't do it, because at the end of the day, you come home, you're tired, and you have to have that self discipline to say, okay, I either have to wake up at 5am or 4am to go do my workout and start my day, or after work, I have to come home and do my workout, but then life gets in the way.
[00:30:34] Kids, family, everything else, right? And so, I think that, that making boutique, or even gyms, a destination where people get a chance to kind of escape, I to be hard to replace.
[00:30:45] Sid: That totally makes sense. And I agree with that. As you look at the future, Mike, what are your plans for Rumble Boxing? Same grandeur, big plans, just like the way you, you know, Executed with Club Pilates or, are you looking at rumble boxing a little differently, based on, you know, the demographics and the demand.
[00:31:05] Mike: Yeah, so, look, I would love for Rumble to blow up as big and as fast as Club Pilates did. Uh, but there's some different nuances. Rumble, there's a lot more inner workings and a lot more components to a studio in this process. I want to have a slow and steady growth process. I want to make sure the partners we do have are ultra successful and then allows us to grow.
[00:31:26] I think slow, steady growth is important. It's important because it's a newer brand and we have to bring it to the masses and we have to bring awareness. And even with Club Pilates, as big as it is, you can still ask anyone on the street, have they heard of Club Pilates?
[00:31:41] And I would be willing to guess that maybe five out of 10 people would say, Oh, I've heard of it. But maybe 2 out of 10 can actually tell you what Club Pilates is, right? So becoming that household name is so critical and important, not only in branding, but awareness. , I think we'll grow as fast as our success will allow us to grow. Um, as long as we can continue having the right processes in place to support the system.
[00:32:01] Sid: That's great. Mike, a lot of, a lot of our, our audience, you know, works in functions that service the built environment, right. Folks in construction and facilities and real estate and design. What advice would you give them in terms of how they should position the conversations that they're having internally within their own business, you know, to make sure that their leaders are aware of the impact of the physical brick and mortar environment to the brand.
[00:32:33] The best way I can answer that is seek to understand. Right, and so in the construction kind of development fit space, um, if you're dealing with a franchise network, right, or with franchisees, very few have that experience. So they don't know what they don't know. And so a lot of times where I've seen even us make mistakes is we assume.
[00:32:51] Mike: We assume that Sid knows what he's talking about, and so we're going to just tell him what to do, and he's going to go do it. So I think slowing down to speed up is important. I think understand what we're trying to accomplish, and then make it so simple that really anyone can understand it. Not actually do it, but understand it, right, because they're going to need that support to go through it.
[00:33:11] And then always go back to that kind of selfish and selfless aspect, right? So selfishly, how am I going to get the benefit out of this? And selflessly, how do I help the business? Right? So, selfishly, as an example, if I do this, does it make my job easier? Right? And if I do this, does it also help the consumer, right, move faster in the process?
[00:33:29] And if that can happen, that's a win win. So, that's how I look at that from a construction design aspect, um, and really support aspect.
[00:33:38] Sid: Yeah. And then the same thing goes with facilities too, right? Which is like, Hey, you know what? You've built a space. You know, your consumers are enjoying what you have to offer them. But guess what? Things break. Things need to be maintained. And if you don't maintain it, very soon, what was once a beautiful facility on day one starts to look old and tired and, and that impacts the brand, right? Would you agree?
[00:34:06] Mike: A hundred percent. Hey, we always say the first place whenever I do a studio tour or market visit, the first place I go in the establishment is the restroom. Correct.
[00:34:14] Sid: Yeah,
[00:34:15] Mike: I want to see is this room spotless, right? Because it tells me a lot about the franchisee or the employees as far as how much they care about the consumer.
[00:34:23] Because no one wants to clean a bathroom, right? I mean, who wants to go in there and clean a bathroom? So, but that also will tell you too that if that's dirty, there's chances are there's some other things that probably are not functioning properly. And it's not necessarily that they intended to do that.
[00:34:36] It's just an oversight. And so how do you put those, those steps in place to support that? So not just the, yeah, not just the maintenance of it, but just the cleanliness too, which is important.
[00:34:46] Sid: And post COVID, like, expectations on cleanliness have, have gone. To the highest of standards. And no matter what kind of offering you have, whether you're a fitness center or a discount retailer or a restaurant or, , a value chain, it doesn't matter, customers today have just higher expectations of the brands that they love, right? Completely agree, um, on everything you're saying, Mike, this has been a fascinating conversation and a huge kudos and, you know, congratulations to you and the success of Club Pilates and looking forward to, to seeing what is in store for Rumble Boxing. And I wish you the best with that as well.
[00:35:25] I really enjoyed our conversation today for folks in our audience who might want to find you or, or look you up, where can they, uh, where can they do that?
[00:35:33] Mike: Easiest ways to find me on LinkedIn, this is Mike Gray on LinkedIn. You'll see my face on there smiling. Um, probably the best way to do it.
[00:35:41] Sid: Perfect. With that, I want to say a huge thank you again, Mike. Really, really appreciate it, and to all those in our audience, thank you so much for joining us, and we'll see you on the next episode of Elevating Brick and Mortar.
[00:35:52] Well, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Mike Gray, president of Rumble Boxing and former president of Club Pilates. It was a fascinating conversation where we talked about how both Pilates and boxing have been around for a very long time.
[00:36:08] But what has changed is the ease with which consumers have access to this modality of fitness. Today's consumers want social interaction and a physical experience in the studio, and this has been a big part of their success. The experience offered is dependent on the physical built environment, and it has the power to either add to or take away from the execution of your brand promise.
[00:36:34] With that, I'm your host Sid Shetty, and I'll see you on the next episode of Elevating Brick and Mortar.