David Schalenbourg joins us to talk about how facilities can play a crucial role in helping the environment, the cross-section between the customer experience and building responsibly, and how he plans to reduce carbon emissions completely within his organization by 2030.
What if the customer experience went beyond just the grocery store, and actually led to a better planet for us all? Our guest today is on a global mission to do just that.
This episode features an interview with David Schalenbourg, Technical Director with Delhaize Technics .Standing at the forefront of sustainable retailing, Delhaize is one of the world’s largest food retail groups and a leader in supermarkets and e-commerce.
On today’s episode David Schalenbourg joins us to talk about how facilities can play a crucial role in helping the environment, the cross-section between the customer experience and building responsibly, and how he plans to reduce carbon emissions completely within his organization by 2030.
Guest Bio:
David Schalenbourg is the Technical Director with Delhaize Technics. He is passionate about buildings and their impact on our lives. He is focused on rebuilding low footprint stores, warehouses and office space shooting for carbon positivity.
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Guest Quote
“When you realize how much energy we need to use to bring food to our plates, you really should have a look at it and do it in the most efficient way. It’s building better spaces, and creating a better environment, and seeing that the things you build can reduce the impact of what is being built because in fact, the assets of our planet are not limitless. We need to take that part and also be careful with our planet. Building only what we need and being as compact as possible with those buildings.” - David Schalenbourg
Time Stamps
*(04:31) David’s Journey to Facilities Management from Architecture
*(6:30) Building Sustainability
*(11:28) The Delhaize Experience
*(13:34) Predictive Maintenance
*(18:39) Delhaize Going Carbon Neutral
*(24:15) Customer Experience vs. Sustainability Efforts
*(30:06) How David Measures Success
*(39:35) David’s Advice
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Sponsor:
Scale your facilities program as fast as you open new locations. With ServiceChannel Managed, you can leave the hard work to us, so you can focus on growth, without limits. ServiceChannel Managed - a collaborative, transparent, and cost-effective partnership. Visit Servicechannel.com to learn more.
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Links
Narrator:
Welcome to Elevating Brick and Mortar, a podcast about how operations and facilities drive brand performance. On today's episode, David Schalenbourg joins us to talk about how facilities can play a crucial role in helping the environment, the cross-section between the customer experience and building responsibly, and how he plans to reduce carbon emissions completely within his organization by 2030. But first, a word from our sponsors.
Narrator:
Scale your facilities program as fast as you open new locations. With Service Channel Managed, you can leave the hard work to us, so you can focus on growth without limits. Service Channel Managed: a collaborative, transparent, and cost effective partnership. Visit servicechannel.com to learn more.
Narrator:
Here's your host, FM technology thought leader and chief business officer at Service Channel, Sid Shetty.
Sid:
Hello everyone. Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. I'm here today with David Schalenbourg. David, welcome. How are you?
David:
Thanks, Sid. Happy to be here.
Sid:
Excellent. So, David, what's your role, and what are you responsible for?
David:
So, Sid, I'm working for a Belgium food retailer, and as a technical director, I'm looking after the store network, the warehouses, and the headquarters. And the main purpose for me is to bring our products to our clients, and that the quality of the products is preserved. Or if you want, that the cold chain is respected, just from the delivery to our warehouse, until the client picks up his steak or his fruit and vegetables in our store.
Sid:
Great. Now, I was looking at your profile online, and you oversee architecture, construction, and facilities. And then I noticed that your new title, like you just mentioned, is Technical Director. Can you explain, what does that mean when you look at the scope of what you do?
David:
In fact, both titles represent the same thing, and when we changed to the latest techniques, it's to make it sound a little bit more sexy than architecture, construction, and maintenance, which is quite a mouthful. So, looking after the stores. It's really the looking after buildings, looking after a store that's installed in a building, and you really need to have an holistic view on everything.
David:
And we are supporting the retail operations. So, they really have their focus on sales, and they just want to push out the products, and make good sales. And with my department, the technical department, we're really supporting that. And you need space to sell your products. That space also represents a part of the image of a company.
David:
So, Delhaize, for us, quality is very important. So, we also want to sell our products in buildings that are correct, that are sustainable, and that are part of, I would say, the brand, and the brand experience, the brand image. And it's not that we just do it for the good looks, but we really want to go beyond, and reduce carbon footprint, which is also an important part of my tasks.
David:
So, if I look at the things that I'm doing for Delhaize as a food retailer, it's like you have the business continuity part where you see that operations keep on running smoothly. And for a supermarket, a lot of things, there are a lot of technical installations, the cooling being the most important one. You want just to have them run as smoothly as possible.
David:
On the other hand, you have a building, a building which ages, and at a certain point in time, you need to renew it. And it can be done through renovation or remodeling, like we call it, where you take all the building techniques out, and you renew the inside of the building. Or you can completely rebuild, and start from scratch, and put a new building with new building techniques on it. And in fact, the same thing applies for our warehouses.
Sid:
David, you're an architect, right? Tell us how you ended up in facilities management.
David:
Oh, do you have five minutes time?
Sid:
Yeah, absolutely.
David:
In fact, my track record is a little bit... Yeah, it's not so common. So, it's been now about 24 years that I'm working with buildings, and buildings are my passion. And when I see one thing that's always been there, that's being this focus on, what's the space we live in? What does it make us feel like? And what's the impact on our lives?
David:
Because I think we don't often pause a moment, being in a building, and wonder what it makes us feel like. And when you look at the trajectory from being an architect, and building houses, lofts, industrial building, office buildings, and then moving more into retail, it's in retail, you have really this focus also on the clients. So, you are less tailoring your building to one person or to one family, but you really try to reach a bigger audience.
David:
And retail has a huge impact. You pass a lot of time. We buy our products in buildings. You see also food retail, it's also, food is one of our primary needs, and if you see then how much energy we need to use to bring this food to our plate, we really should have a look at it, and do it in the most efficient way.
David:
And I think on one hand, building better spaces, and creating a better environment, and also seeing that the things that you build, you can reduce the impact of what is being built. Because, in fact, the assets of our planet are not limitless. So, we also need to take that part, and being careful with our planet, building only what we need, and being as compact as possible with those buildings.
David:
And it's been quite all right. I think I've been in retail before I was at Delhaize. I was more in the banking sector, but always with buildings. Now, with retail, there you have the aspect of cooling. And cooling is so important, Sid. Cooling is everywhere in our lives. It's omnipresent. And cooling also, the cooling the way we use it today, the refrigerants that we use, unfortunately, the refrigerants that globally are most commonly used are greenhouse gases. So, they cause our climate to change.
David:
Now you will say, "David, okay. You're in a pretty bad business, if you need cooling and you need to use those gases." Now, there are solutions, and you have natural refrigerants.
David:
In Europe, they're breaking true, and you see with the Green Deal, there's now a phase out of greenhouse gases. But in other parts of the world, it's not main used technology. So, I think also there, I see it also as one part of I can call it the mission, or objective, or that you want to raise awareness of what's possible, what's feasible.
David:
And I think the good news is many people say, "Okay, it's too complex." And when you go to other refrigerants, and you have natural refrigerants, for example, the CO2 that we want to decrease, because it has an impact on climate, if you have CO2 as a byproduct of industrial processes, it can be used also for cooling, but on a much higher pressure than the traditional refrigerants. So, it puts another unique, more solid systems and installations. But if there's a leak, the impact of the leak is about 400 times smaller than the impact of a leak with a hydrofluorocarbon, which causes our climate to heat up.
Sid:
Essentially, it sounds like you entered the space because you want to make a big impact, and you have a mission. And by being in the space where you are, you are able to do a lot of things to increase or elevate the customer experience, while making a positive impact to the environment. I mean, that's pretty fantastic.
Sid:
Tell us about Delhaize. You have a lot of amazing local brands across multiple countries, right?
David:
Delhaize is a part of Ahold Delhaize, and Ahold Delhaize is a global group, which is also present in the States. You have Food Lion, or Hannaford, which are present in the United States. And they're also with the colleagues of the United States.
David:
We're looking at this technology. And I also feel like I have to admit, energy prices in Europe push us forward. So, we see that with this steep increase of the prices of gas, and also electricity, you need to look for improvement. And when you talk about, for example, these CO2 installations, or these cooling installations with natural refrigerants, you see that we call it integrated systems, so we can combine different installations in the cooling.
David:
And what we do is that we reclaim the heat from the cooling cabinet. So, a cooling cabinet, in fact, you're not bringing in cold. You're just extracting the heat. And that heat, you can use to have hot water, to heat the store, also for air conditioning. So, you can exclude a heating installation. And so, we have now, I think, about 40, 50 stores, where we don't use any fossil fuel any longer. So, we stopped with natural gas.
Sid:
Wow.
David:
And everything what's happening in Europe with the gas, and certainly you heard about it, it's a good thing. It's the way to go. We need to go fossil free. Not only because of the prices, but also because of the climate. So, it's it double ticks.
Sid:
Let's jump into our next section, and talk about some big picture objectives, and the way teams can move them across the goal line.
Speaker 4:
We're going to go inside, we're going to go outside. Inside and outside. We're going to get him on the run, boys. Once we get him on the run, we're going to keep him on the run. And then we're going to go, go, go, go, go, go. And we're not going to stop till we get across that goal line.
Sid:
So, Dave, what kind of customer experience does Delhaize care about? Especially since you have so many brands, what matters to you, and how do you keep it consistent across all these brands? Can you share something about that?
David:
Delhaize is one of the many brands within Ahold Delhaize. And also in Europe, Ahold Delhaize is present in different countries, and each operating company defines its own specific strategy. From my point of view, I can talk for the Delhaize part, and that's the part that's in Belgium and in Luxembourg, and their quality is really important. Just the quality of the products.
David:
Price is not the first topic. So, it's really going for the quality, the customer experience, and not being maybe the cheapest on the market, but really, okay, we follow what's happening price wise, but our aim is really to be best in class in quality, and to exceed.
David:
We also want to bring new offerings to the clients, and that's, for example, in bakery. Also with our meat departments, fruit and vegetables, with sushi stands. There are different things that we like to bring to our clients, and to enrich the offering in the store.
Sid:
I love how you talk about customer experience, about the brand. That is front and center to your mission and your purpose, as well as sustainability. And fixing broken things, comes with it at some point, but that's not the primary function. And it's one of the things that we're trying to spread the word about, which is, facilities is way more than just being able to fix things faster. Right?
David:
Yeah. I fully agree. I think for every organization, or every company, I think it's very important to have a good follow up on their assets. And I think we waste a lot of money on that, by just not a proper maintenance, no timely maintenance, being more in reactive maintenance. And we worked a lot at that, at Delhaize, and really, once we shifted from reactive maintenance, and being very good firemen, and okay, we can solve any problem. No problem.
Sid:
Right.
David:
But to being more in preventive maintenance, and anticipating. And we're even moving beyond, and the next thing is going to predictive maintenance. IOT plays a major role in that, and you want to have a brick network, but you want to have an intelligent brick network, and you need to connect your stores, and be able to follow and monitor what's happening in the store.
David:
Also, having a performance ticketing system helps you, seeing where the weaknesses are in your organization. And I have to say, five years ago, we were more in a position where everything that went wrong was the fault of the technical department, and it was the, ah, didn't work. We had bad suppliers, bad choice, poor negotiation.
David:
Today, we objectified, and with the performance dashboards, you can pinpoint where the problems are. And I have to say that quite often, it's in the stores. The way we make use of a certain equipment. The way we take care or not take care of it. And then you see it's a question of mindset, to make it more visible.
Sid:
So, when you look at Delhaize online, right, it seems like sustainability is front and center. Tell us about your commitment to ESG. I know you're very passionate about sustainability as well. Would love to hear more.
David:
Well, I'm very proud to say, within the group, Ahold Delhaize, that Delhaize Belgium is a front runner, and is really pushing, and looking, well, what can we do better, and how can we improve? I'm also very proud that, within the group, when you have the yearly report, that there's really a section on carbon emission, and the carbon footprint.
David:
And as a group, there's also reporting following the SBTI, science based target method, where you benchmark your reduction towards not aligned as defined by the CEO or the company responsible. Like, "We will reduce 30% by 2030." Sounds very well, but it doesn't mean anything, if you don't know the benchmark.
Sid:
Right.
David:
SBTI, you optimize, you communicate about it. And so, that's more like the part towards the public. But on the inside, there's a lot of energy and it's put in, how can we become more sustainable? And like I mentioned before, these installations have a huge impact. So, we really move forward by replacing installations which leak or with which are outdated, by new installations with natural refrigerants.
David:
We opt out on the fossil. We reduce the energy. We also go for also enlightening. It means also putting more doors on cooling cabinets. It's not always convenient. Because for example, for somebody in retail, a fridge outdoors, it's really like, impulse sales. You will be in front of this fridge and you will say, "Oh, this looks nice." Buy two for the price of one. You throw it in your caddy, or in your basket, and you walk out. If there's a door in between, we see a decrease of sales. So, also there-
Sid:
How interesting.
David:
... I would like to say, it's also mindset. I met once this old lady in a supermarket. I was on my tour, and she asked me, "Okay, you're working for Delhaize." I said, "Yes, yes. I'm the technical, responsible." "Can you tell me, why aren't there any doors on this section?"
Sid:
Wow.
David:
And I stayed a little bit... Yeah. I said, "Okay, I'm going to answer this one." And she said, "You know, at home, I have a door at my fridge. Why don't you have one?" So, it's very plain. Solutions are very simple, but you have to see, it's also this client experience again, and how you bring it to the public.
Sid:
Right. Wow. A door being between the product and the customer affects sales. That is amazing. And you're right. I think that if it's the right thing to do, it's probably worth everyone doing it. It looks like Delhaize has a commitment to go carbon neutral by 2030. That's just eight years away.
David:
In fact, today, operations are already carbon neutral. So, we power all our operations with green energy. So, basically, in theory, it means that you're carbon neutral. So, it's rather easy.
David:
I think it's really using less, which is the most important part. Using less, and if you can, create your own. Also think about solar energy, wind energy. Because the energy that you create your own, on site, you don't need to take it from the grid. So, you become also less dependent from the grid. You decrease also dependency of the market prices that can go up and down.
David:
But coming back to the most important part is use less. It's just seeing, how can you reduce energy consumption within your operation? And you have to look at it on the whole, from end to end. Really, I would say, from the warehouse, until the store.
Sid:
Now, you mentioned earlier about being smart and creative about how you use and combine different assets, and the outputs of different assets to still get the same outcome, right? Can you share more about that?
David:
What we do is, when you look at integrated solutions... For example, a good example is the fact that when bringing a new cooling installation, and working with reclaimed heat, you can avoid to invest in a heating installation. So, it means also that your technical spaces become... You reduce on square meters that you need to put all these installations.
David:
And certainly, in a context if you are in a dense, urban area, where you have rents that can be very high, you just want to use the space to put your products. Not to put your cooling insulation, because you can't sell it, or not to put your heating. So, the more you can go to these compact solutions, which can provide you not only cold, but also heat, hot water, you make it as a whole more efficient.
David:
On the other hand, if you bring everything together, you also need technicians, which are skilled to work with this technology. Because when you are going to set the parameters, or the set points of these installations, you need to know precisely what's happening. If you reduce the functioning of the cooling, maybe you will recuperate less heat, and then it will become more difficult, for example, in winter, to heat the store. And these things, these are risks that are attached to these integrated solutions. But then again, if you have good suppliers, skilled technicians, it's manageable.
Sid:
You're doing and taking action that impacts Delhaize's overall goals, especially towards sustainability and being carbon neutral. How are you having these conversations internally? How are you asking for more investments? How are you raising awareness on the impact that you make and your team makes to the overall organization?
Sid:
Because that's one of the biggest challenges I think our industry faces, where I don't think we articulate enough what we do, and why we do it, and why we exist, and the impact we make on the broader mission. How do you do it?
David:
It's time consuming. It's a mission. And within the company, sales are first priority. And everything that hinders sales, or blocks sales, it's not looked at positively. So, I think the main thing is, as a company, you also have a responsibility towards the planet, towards your neighbors, and you also have a role there to play. And then it's bringing together the right things at the right moment.
David:
So, I think, to put it very bluntly, everything that's happening in the world is helping us to go forward. But I think sometimes we need just this stress or crisis situation to really see what's happening. And when everything is going well, why would we want to change that?
Sid:
Right.
David:
It's so easy to just on the beaten track, and to continue what we're doing, and not ask any questions. It's a worldwide problem. And I think today, we see also in Europe, and also in Belgium, what's happening with the climate, and we have some summers that don't look like classic Belgium summers. We have much more heatwaves than before. We have floodings. Last year, we had an enormous flooding in Belgium. It happens once in a hundred years, but now things are not only happening far away, but also here, right in our backyard.
Sid:
Right. We have to all take action. It's not something which is in the distant future. It's happening today. Let's move on to our next section, which is all about how you do it.
Speaker 3:
(singing)
Sid:
David, how do you think construction, architecture, and design play a role in creating great customer experiences, without compromising on your commitment to the environment? But do you think that are challenges in trying to pursue both simultaneously?
David:
I think, Sid, let's be honest, good or bad architecture, it has the same price. So, you need people to be aware, and that also architects that design buildings take it into consideration. And it's been now, I'm an architect. I learned about cooling for the last six years, and it's about getting the word out. It's about understanding what the impact of cooling is in our lives. And then you can design buildings in the proper way.
David:
Refitting buildings is always more difficult, but I think we need... Every new building is an opportunity to integrate these new technologies. And older buildings, retrofitting, it'll always be a little bit a solution to bridge the time until that way building comes, end of its lifespan.
Sid:
How do you think facilities management is evolving? I mean, do you see any clear differences in just the space in general, compared to the US, or the rest of the world?
David:
I think that the challenges are a little bit alike. It's also a little bit the way that we work with the buildings, the heritage. It's not always common in Europe to tear a building down. But in Asia, they really have these big expansions of cities, and so on. But we need really to think in every market, how we can go forward.
David:
I think technology isn't so different. It's more about the conditions. When I look at it in the States, you have least pressure on prices of utilities, of your energy, than in Europe. So, it's creating more stress in Europe than in the States. But in the end, when you see it on the level of the planet and our climate, we need to take action.
David:
Really, if you see that we still have... For example, in South America and Brazil, you really find supermarkets that do a refill with refrigerants two or three times a year, and that's because of leaks. And leaks... Okay, if you have a natural refrigerant installation that leaks, and one kilo of CO2 escapes, it stays one kilo of CO2. It's the equivalent of one kilo of CO2. Simple.
David:
But if you have a chlorofluorocarbon, or a hydrofluorocarbon, which is commonly used, if one kilo escapes, it's the equivalent of four tons of CO2. So, it's much bigger. It's a huge impact on our climate. So, I think there's really a point to start from. Making this technology accessible. Seeing that there are skilled technicians, and passing the word.
David:
So, Ahold Delhaize has also operations in Indonesia, and they're also okay. It's more like the island situation. It's much more difficult to build an installation. Wherever in the world, it's possible with natural refrigerants to maintain it. That's a lot of a challenge.
Sid:
How did you go about making the case internally? Do you have to do retrofits with your existing refrigerated assets to convert them to natural refrigerants?
David:
When you work with a natural refrigerant like CO2, it's under higher pressure than in other installations. So, it means, basically, if you move to CO2, you have to replace and the cooling cabinets, and the heart of the installation. The cooling rack with all the compressors.
David:
If you retrofit, you put in another fluid, and you use basically the same installation. Retrofitting is quite often used to drop in fluids, and then you can extend the lifetime of an installation for a few years longer. If you have a leak, it will also have an impact, lesser than the impact of the classic AFC, but there will be still an impact much larger than a natural refrigerant.
David:
The main obstacle, or the main hurdle is the budget. Because when you talk about retailers, they have often a big network. It's supermarkets. It's not easy to say, "Okay, overnight, we'll switch to..." It's something that takes time.
David:
And when I look at it from how we tackled it, it's like, we planned we're replacing installation since about eight to nine years. And every year, we add another 10 new cooling installations to the pack. So, gradually, you arrive, having replaced all your network, and having the same installations.
David:
And then I come back to the question that you asked before. Yes, if you have one type of installation, you can really have also the maintenance that's adapted to that type of installation. And you can go further in the settings and optimizing of those installation.
David:
If you have a lot of different types, it's also more difficult to handle. But the main thing is... In fact, you could also very bluntly say, if an installation doesn't leak, it doesn't matter what's inside. And that's the truth.
Sid:
That's right.
David:
Is it natural, or a chemical blend? Whatever. But it should stay inside. The reality is, it quite often leaks.
Sid:
Yeah. Yeah. David, how do you measure success? That what you're doing is making a difference, and you're moving in the right direction. You mentioned earlier about having a benchmark, so where you are, so you can make improvements on it. How do you do it? What are you measuring?
David:
Our carbon footprint. And okay, we're working on these cooling installations since 2005. So, I'm not the first one to start at Delhaize with that. I'm in the continuity.
Sid:
Sure.
David:
I also have to thank my predecessor for it, for already picking up the road. And since we launched SBTI, science based targets, SBT, 2018, we benchmark compared to 2018. Since 2018, we reduced carbon footprint with 60% for the operations in Belgium, Luxembourg.
David:
Green energy being one of them, but then also adding up all these cooling installations that come in, and that help to further reduce your energy, use, being more efficient, using less gas. You calculate the emissions that you have from your operations, and you see the purposes that it decreases.
David:
And one of the nice things also that changes over time was like, okay, we did the follow ups, as a department, on the carbon footprint of the Delhaize. It's nice. Okay. We report on it. Okay. It's one of the targets of the bonus also for the people working at Delhaize. For example, last year, we did so well, we outperformed, and we decreased our target. We decreased so much that, in fact, we helped push the bonus of everybody within the company. So, everybody was applauding for my teams. Like, "All right, guys. You did a good job."
David:
But where I wanted to land, and this is more significantly, is we have a finance department, like every company, and today, our finance department is treating our CO2 emissions like the sales numbers. So, it's as important as the sales figures.
Sid:
Love it.
David:
And now I had this discussion with the lady who was taking care of the figures, and she had to understand. And she was explaining to me, "Oh, this is really bad." She was looking at the graph. And she said, "You're below target. When I compare it to last year, you are below target. Way below target."
David:
I said, "No, that's good." "No, it's bad," she said. She already made her PowerPoint, and she wrote on the top, below target. Red light. And that was a slide that she wanted to present it to the CEO in Belgium.
David:
I said, "No, no. You understand it wrong. It's the opposite. We don't want to reach the target. We want to stay below as much as possible." And then you saw her face change. But it's just like, when you see this in the eyes of people, you say, "Okay, she got it. She's on our side now." And I think also, when in a company, you start to treat this part of information, and you put it on the same level as your sales figures that you want to be as high as possible, it becomes more part of the DNA of your company.
Sid:
I love that.
David:
And then it starts to lift. And for me again, I already said it, it's about spreading the word. And sometimes it's more like you go on a pilgrimage, and you try to convince people. Another moment with the team, we tried to take the castle, and it's not always been easy the last years. But one moment, sooner or later, doors will swing open, and you will be in the castle. And then you need to know what to say and what to do.
Sid:
Perfect segue into our last section, right? Which is, let's talk about the future.
Speaker 3:
The future. The future. The future.
Sid:
But before we do that, let's talk about the evolution of our space over the past 10 years. What do you think has changed in the past 10 years, and what would you like to see change as we move forward?
David:
Things are changing, but they're changing too slowly. From my own perspective, if things go too slow, I get bored. So, I really want things to move ahead and go forward. I think we need consciousness. Being conscious about the assets we need, the assets we use. To build buildings, to create this brick network. Being conscious about the energy that's used. There's a balance that needs to be restored.
David:
I know this sounds a little bit like an ideal, a bit in the air, but there's one project that I'm particularly proud of, and that's a supermarket in Brussels. So, it's really in the city center. And you have an architect, and I'm going to use some architectural terms. I don't know if you know the fifth facade of a building.
Sid:
The feeling of the roof.
David:
The roof, exactly. And a roof quite often is just used to cover your heads, to protect you from the rain and everything. And a roof comes in very handy if you want to put some technical installations, and you just throw them on the roof. And all the neighbors around are looking on this ugly roof.
Sid:
Yeah.
David:
Well, in a supermarket in Brussels, we built an urban farm on the roof of a supermarket. Now, why we did it? Okay. We did reinforce the structure of the building. But in fact, we're planting, and growing, and harvesting vegetables and fruits on top of a supermarket. When we harvest, it's packed on spot, and it's brought down to the store where it's sold.
David:
Is it sufficient to provide the whole neighborhood with strawberries? No. But for me, it's an example of really short chain logistics. It's like, produced on the spot. It's also urban farming. It's using the precious space that we have in the most efficient way.
David:
And last but not least, there's also a glasshouse, a greenhouse in fact, on the roof. And the greenhouse, we use part of the reclaimed heat of the supermarket to heat the greenhouse in winter to grow crops, salad, and so on. So, for me, it's really an example of what's possible. And I think we should more look into that direction.
Sid:
Are you hopeful that more companies will embrace sustainability, and create better designs, and better buildings and spaces that are built in a way that is good for the climate, but still can provide the customer experience that they're looking for?
David:
I'm an optimist, so I think as human beings, we are very inventive and innovative. And when there's a lot of pressure, we come with the best solutions. So, I'm really curious what will happen in these times that we're living today. And I'm very happy to be part of it.
David:
So, I think, like you say, everybody has a role to play, and to see where we can go forward. But a lot is happening, but I just also want to warn, I think saying that all the solutions will come from technology... No. Technology will be part of the solution, but the other half has to come from our own mindsets, and the way we use our technology. So, yeah, if we have a good mixture of those two ingredients, we will make it.
Sid:
Yeah. And I think today, consumers have higher expectations too, right, David? It's not good enough if you have a good product. Consumers want you as a brand to have a higher purpose, and be more respectful of the environment, and also stand for something. Would you agree?
David:
The word that pops up in my mind is authenticity, and it's being able to look in the mirror and say, "Okay." It's always trying. It's always trying to improve. Saying, "One day we will be there," I don't think there's something like that. We will always be progressing, and discovering new things.
David:
It's always double, but authenticity is also what the client is looking for. There's also sustainability. What is really sustainability, and when does it become greenwashing? That's also a part where companies sometimes pretend to do some things. And I think when I'm talking too, for Delhaize, when I'm proud of what we are doing, it's not one store that we did, but it's about two thirds of the network that we already changed.
David:
So, there's really a structural change. If you are just a one trick pony, sooner or later, the public will also understand that. So, I think that's an important part. But it's not always easy to wrap that, and make it like an argument to promote sales.
Sid:
Yeah. What advice would you give to others in roles like yours, David?
David:
I think you really need to be open minded, have an helicopter view, an holistic view, to try to understand, and how you can bring together the different stakeholders. And as stakeholders, I talk from my own point of view, stakeholders within the company, because you really need some fan bases almost, within the company, to make speed, to go forward with these kinds of measures. And then on the other hand, see also that it becomes a marketing argument for the company.
David:
And I happily compare with, for example, like with the products, we're looking also at plastic waste, and also all the plastic where the food is wrapped within. We try to decrease that. But the CO2 reduction with cooling installations, it's much more spectacle than not wrapping a banana in plastic. But on the other hand, what the client sees, he sees more the product than he sees the cooling insulation.
David:
So, it's somewhere. It's in the back, because CO2 was used until the 30s as a refrigerant. It was pushed out of the market because we developed all these chemical blends, which made our life much easier, and which were easier to use, and so on and so on, without knowing what the by-effects would be.
David:
And I think this is really our story. We develop things, and we say, "Wow, wonderful." And then 10, 20 years after we say, "Okay, no." That got it wrong. We need to phase this out. So, I think also there, we need to see, and sometimes go back to the basics.
Sid:
I love it. So, we need to educate more. We need to articulate better, and we need to spread the word.
David:
And that's why I'm glad also to talk to you today. Thanks for giving this opportunity. I love talking about it. I can talk about this topic... Because really, it makes a difference.
David:
If you know, Sid, that if globally, all supermarkets would go to natural refrigerants, what impact it would have on the climate? We would find already half a degree of the two degrees that we want to avoid. It's half a degree. It's 25%. So, there is something, and yeah, we just need to move us together.
David:
And it sounds, there are solutions. The most difficult part is getting aligned, and getting everybody on the same line, that this is the action to take, and these are the investments that we should do to preserve our planet, to preserve our clients, and preserve, ultimately, also the continuity of a company.
Sid:
I love that. With that, I think it's the perfect way to end the show. Thank you for your time, David. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation, and I'm sure our audience will as well.
Sid:
For all those listening, if you want to look up David, you can find him on LinkedIn. I would highly recommend reaching out. David, is that okay?
David:
Yeah, no problem.
Sid:
That sounds perfect. Awesome. Love it. Well again, thank you so much for being here, David, and for having this conversation. And for all those listening, thank you so much, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 5:
Thank you for listening to this episode of Elevating Brick and Mortar, a podcast brought to you by Service Channel. Partner with Service Channel for peak facilities performance. Go to servicechannel.com to learn more. And if you like what you're hearing, please give us a rate and review.